Do They Ever Explain How Ciel Becomes Human Again

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• In Episode 24, Ash/Angela's body is left as a centerpiece to Tower Bridge. What ever happened to it afterwards? Ciel is seen going through London in Season Two without noticing it, and there's no mention of the body afterwards, so presumably it would have been taken down between Episode 24 and Season Two. Also, the discovery of a mutilated body with wings that looks mysteriously like the high ranking official of the queen that went missing a while ago (Assuming they were even recognizable) is sure to raise a few eyebrows, it's a complete mystery seeing as they aren't mentioned more in Season Two in general.
• At the end of season two of the non-canon anime, why is it that Sebastian is stuck serving demon!Ciel for eternity? Shouldn't the contract instead be rendered null and void now that Ciel doesn't have a soul for Sebastian to consume (which is an integral part of the contract) once his revenge is concluded?
  • Not going to lie, that is weird and if he wanted to Sebastian could really attempt to kill Demon!Ciel, especially since Ciel shouldn't have the experience to properly defend himself. That said, the terms of the last ordered included that Sebastian would serve Ciel until he consumes Ciel's soul, and since he now has no soul to be eaten Sebastian is now stuck forever unless he wants say "screw it" to his aesthetics.
• Other than "because plot", if Claude wanted Ciel's soul so badly why didn't he just try to take it from Sebastian, like he already had done prior to the beginning of the season? It's not like demons and humans need to have a contract for the former to be able to eat the latter's soul.
• If she hated it so much, why on Earth did Madam Red give abortions to those sex workers? It was illegal at the time so it's not like her career would've taken a hit. (If anything, those operations likely would've ruined her reputation and her career if word had gotten out about them.) Did Angelina have a desire to help her patients regardless of the problem, but her feelings twisted into resentment later on? Or is it a case of Critical Research Failure?
  • Could be someone higher up giving the order to go ahead—if Angelina was just the surgeon, she might not have a say in who does or does not get a certain operation.
  • But it was outright illegal, with a possible punishment of life imprisonment. If there was a higher up trying to force her, she would've easily been able to get out of having to operate simply by threatening to report said higher up to the authorities.
• If I recall correctly, in the manga chapter in which Ciel and Sebastian spot the German shinigami Sascha and Ludger, they mention that it's unusual for humans to be able to see shinigami. However, Madam Red was able to see Grell just fine during the Ripper arc, and during the Campagnia arc, all the various human characters we see clearly had no issue seeing any of them. (For instance, Lizzie saw Grell with Sebastian and asked who she was; Aleister Chamber could obviously see all three of the shinigami on board, as could Rian Stoker; and Ronald was able to flirt with Mey-Rin and Sophie Smith.) Since when have humans ever been unable to see shinigami? Has that been ret-conned over time? Or, since Ludger said that Ciel was likely able to see them because of his contract or his lineage, am I to assume every other human we've seen so far has similar ties to shinigami somehow?
  • I assume that shinigami can choose whether they want to be seen or not, and Sasha and Ludger were currently hidden when Ciel spotted him. Just a guess though.
  • The Phantomhive family seems to have more history with the supernatural than has been revealed. Undertaker carried a mourning locket for Ciel's paternal grandmother, for instance. We can reasonably speculate there's something in the bloodline; perhaps Undertaker is Ciel's grandfather! I think there are multiple reasons behind this question, though.
• I've seen it mentioned a few times that Ciel is portrayed more sympathetically in the manga than in the anime. Could I get some specifics? I haven't noticed any of this, but I've only just finished marathoning them both so I might've missed something.
  • Honestly, I would disagree and assume that this is just fanwank. I think that if you look at the first few volumes that the anime, erm...adapts, he's more sympathetic in the anime, simply because he gets more speeches and doesn't do anything too heartless. Since the manga is ongoing, it naturally allows for more development and angst. However, progressing through the manga, he commits some pretty heinous acts, to the point that a lot of fans who see past his charm have a hard time agreeing with and sympathizing with him. I know I do. I think saying stuff like that is just a way to get people to read the manga, to be frank.
  • I guess that also part of this "Ciel is more sympathetic on the anime" comes from Maaya Sakamoto's voice, since it reminds us that Ciel is only 13 years old,remembering us what he had to endure to become wel... such a heinus person. It also helps on the other side, I was frankly disgusted on Baron Kelvin when I readed the manga but seeing it on the anime almost make me puke, because of his voice.
• Why is it that Bard doesn't use a formal title when referring to Sebastian (in Chapter 52, he addresses him by merely saying "Hey Sebastian!"), but Finny and Meyrin refer to him as "Mr. Sebastian?" In Chapter 94, Finny even seems a bit flustered, as if he's done something wrong when he doesn't use a formal title in reference to Sebastian.
  • Just a guess here, but it could possibly be a reference to the fact that Bard is American, not English, and therefore isn't as immersed in class culture as the rest of the household.
  • It's because while he's very casual around Finny and Meyrin, Bard actually outranks them by a decent margin in the servant's heirarchy. As the chef, he is a senior servant in charge of an entire section of the house (the kitchen, as opposed to the dining room and larder, which is traditionally the butler's domain). While it would be more professional for him and Sebastian to call each other Mister, he can get away with not using it because he's in a position of authority.
• The sex scene with Beast. He's doing it with her to get information on her father figure. And is doing the deed with her WHILE having a nice little conversation about her father figure. Wait, what?
  • Don't forget that Beast also is in (unrequited) love with her elder/eldest brother figure. So it's probably par for the course for Beast...
  • While we're at it, don't forget the younger brother figure that's also in unrequited love with her. Circus life, eh?
  • More like par for the course for the series considering we also have a pair of cousins that are engaged as well as the sis-con of a brother she has.
• Why doesn't anyone notice that Ciel Phantomhive's butler looks a lot like the late Earl Phantomhive (Ciel's dad)?
  • Either Ciel or Sebastian actually did this on purpose; his looks were formed from his father, and he was named after his beloved dog. Both had died.
    • I think what the OP meant was why don't any of the characters notice that he looks like Vincent (instead of the fandom, since most of them have noticed by now), which is actually a good question, since it has indeed already been mentioned that Ciel chose to have Sebastian look like Vincent.
  • The only answer I can come up with is that the characters in the show/manga are somehow aware of the trope Identical Stranger and decide to go with it. Though even then it doesn't make all that much sense.
  • One of the more sensible explanations this troper has seen is that since the resemblance is so close, people who do notice it might think that Sebastian is an illegitimate child of Vincent's, and that either Vincent or Ciel took him up as a servant as a way of providing him with a living. Any in-universe character who comes to this conclusion is probably also sensible enough to know it's not the sort of topic you bring up for discussion.
    • This troper doubts that, as Vincent was not very old when he died, so it is not the immediate idea that he was capable of producing, or even did, off-spring prior to Ciel.
  • Take into account that so far as most characters know, Sebastian is just a regular young man. They look at him and figure he's probably in his early-mid twenties, and assume that if he did have any kids, they'd be younger than Ciel,so they know he's not secretly Ciel's dad coming back in an obvious disguise or something. Also:
  • Every adult who meets Ciel thinks (at least at first) that he's just a sweet kid who's way in over his head, and he sometimes acts innocent/childish to mislead people. They probably just assume that Ciel just came across this guy who looked just like his daddy and begged Sebastian to work for him because he missed his parents and wanted someone to fill their place in his heart. And they may not be entirely wrong in thinking that.
  • Madam Red loved Vincent and she was groping Sebastian's butt in her appearance chapter. She must have noticed.
  • Well, I certainly didn't notice. For anime characters, they're really not that similar.
    • IIRC the reason they don't look that similar in the anime version is because Sebastian is still based more on Yana's older drawings in the anime, whereas Vincent was introduced later on in the series so of course they based him on her updated design. However in the manga, at least IMO, they have the same face shape and everything. Only their hair's different, and Vincent has a mole. Plus somewhere it's been mentioned that Ciel wanted Sebastian to take the shape of his father, so.
    • I don't believe that fan theory has ever been endorsed by the manga author. It's more a case of Epileptic Trees than anything. Also, their eye-shapes, mouth shapes, and hair are still really different. (I read the manga and watch the anime) I really don't see why people are so insistent they look the same. They're drawn in the same style by the same author as attractive men.
    • I don't remember Ciel saying anything about modelling Sebastian's appearance after Vincent anywhere in the Manga.
  • It's possible that Sebastian just appeared in a form that he thought would be handsome and/or respectable to Ciel, and any young boy's standard for "respectable, good-looking older man" is usually based on his father. He wouldn't want to look identical to him, just have the same sort of attributes that make Lord Phantomhive handsome.
  • Sebastian himself, at least in the manga, said he had to take on the form of a butler that was "fitting" to an Earl and so made himself a very handsome man... with the strange likeness to Vincent being a complete coincidence.
    • Adding to this explanation. it's possible that he might have reasoned that being good-looking would be helpful for his master's purposes, so he took on some generally handsome features. While Vincent was canonically stated to be considered handsome, so he may have had similar features. Much like how modern actors, singers, and models considered good-looking seem like cookie cutter clones (Zoey Deschannel and Katy Perry, for example).
  • One more possibility could be that it turns out Vincent's soul was not properly checked when he died and the demon that became Sebastian ate the soul, hence the likeness in human form - but that is more going into Wild Mass Guessing territory.
    • Sebastian was not in the human world at the time of Vincent's death.
  • This actually has a really simple explanation. Yana has stated that the physical similarities between Vincent and Sebastian in his current form are due to her inability (especially in the past) to draw young, attractive men who look different from each other. It's just a case of same face syndrome.
• What is a European redhead housemaid doing with a name like Mey-Rin?
  • Dunno, Toboso Yana named her that. You do mean that Mey-Rin is a weird name, right?
  • From what I understand, 'Mey-Rin' is a translation error, due to the lack of an 'l' sound in Japanese speech and script, and her name is actually more along the lines of Mei-Lin; I'm fairly sure she's Chinese, not European.
    • Is Mey-Rin official? Some places say it's "Maylene", which would actually make a lot more sense.
    • Chapter 163 has confirmed her name is Mei-Ling (written 美玲) and previous chapters have shown that she is, in fact, Chinese.
• In Kuroshitsuji: Phantom & Ghost, what exactly happened with/to Stella? If she wasn't really dead, how was she able to possess Elizabeth and interact with her and Ciel? If she was actually dead, how was she able to return to her body at the end?
  • Also why exactly was her body in a bed in Lord Ridley's mansion? And is there any real significance to the three rings as far as the supernatural elements of the game go?
• Maybe I'm just stupid, but didn't a few of the characters die or were implied to be dead in the first season? Those characters are back in the second season. Lau most definitely died, but he seems to be back, in the second episode of the second season. Ciel's soul was supposed to be taken by Sebastian...and yet, he's still alive. Hmm.
  • Probably because the show would be rather bleak without those characters, Ciel especially.
  • This might be more appropriate for the WMG page, but it looks like it's some sort of alternate timeline or something, as of episode 3.
  • As it turns out Ciel simply lost his memories. Sebastian was about to eat Ciel but his soul got stolen by Claude, somehow. As for the deceased characters... we didn't actually see Lau and Ran-mao die they simply fell into the water and COULD have survived and Abberline did die but the character that appears in season two is his twin. Whether this can be seen as a Retcon or not is debatable.
• In the manga, Ciel's aunt and Elizabeth's mother are having a nice little hunting party when suddenly a BEAR jumps out! Now, did the author just forget or did she actually think bears ran around the outskirts of London?
  • It's mentioned that Ceil does not live close to London. So it's not that unusual.
    • "Not that unusual"? We do not have freaking BEARS in Britain!
    • Yeah, bears lived on the island of Great Britain until absolutely no later than CE 1000, around which time they died out through over-hunting, making the extinction of British bears roughly as old as or older than the foundation of the original Kingdom of England (circa 927 CE), but younger than the foundation of the Kingdom of Scotland (circa 843 CE), the Kingdom of Dumnonia (circa 400 CE), and the Kingdoms of Deheubarth, Dyfed, Gwynedd, and Powys (circa 450 CE). Unless Ciel, Lizzie, Francis, and Sebastian all somehow travelled about 900 years or more into the past and back without realising, it is very unusual. And "[Ciel] does not live close to London"? The very first chapter of the manga makes it clear that the Phantomhive manor is "on the outskirts of London".
    • Maybe it escaped from a zoo or something?
    • Or a circus.
    • Given that the Phantomhives/Midfords are indisputably of the Badass Family type, maybe they just decided to have bears lurking around the estate . . . not as pets, but to keep the kids from growing too complacent in a safe environment. Or as an awesome security system.
    • In those times, bear-baiting was a popular event for nobles. Maybe one escaped from a bear-baiting party?
• Madam Red dies and then it's almost as if they forget her. Technically, Ciel in Season 2 really does, but the manga is basically the same. Wouldn't Ciel show at least some more remorse or hatred towards Grell? In fact, the only one who is a big reminder that she actually existed as a character is Grell, who wears her coat almost as a token.
  • Odd that you bring up the coat, because that's something that really bugged me until I rewatched the third episode of Kuro II. Ciel doesn't have any memories at this point. When they head to London, he mentions not wanting to run into Madam Red, and Sebastian replies, rather morbidly in hindsight, that that won't be an issue. When they meet Grell later, Ciel specifically reacts to the color of Grell's coat. "That red..." He obviously doesn't recognize Grell as Anonymous-Bespectacled-Butler, but he recognizes the color of the coat. He may not make the connection that it is, in fact, the exact same coat, but he recognizes it.
  • After Madam Red dies in the manga, Elizabeth and her mother come to visit Ciel, and Lizzie mentions that she's happy to see Ciel enthusiastic about his competition with Elizabeth's mother. She specifically says that Ciel was very close to Madam Red, and she wasn't sure how he'd manage after her death. This being Ciel, of course the answer is "stoic".
  • No. The manga is not the same. The animation takes it own course pretty much after Jack the Ripper and Grell has several appearances (and has her character derailed) but manga wise, we haven't seen her since Jack the Ripper. William has shown up more than her. As for no angst, Ciel has suffered through worse shit than losing a family member at this point. Plus he has to keep up appearances. He doesn't want to be considered a child, so if the public saw the great head of the Phantomhive household (male no less) angsting and moaning and whining about his Aunt's death...well respect for him would severely decline. Both in the manga and in the fandom.
  • This troper would like to point out that Grell comes back in the newest arc (don't know the name of it) along with Ronald.
  • In the manga Ciel flashes back to Madam Red taking care of him when he's ill during the Circus Arc. Not so forgotten ...
  • She may be all but forgotten in the anime, but Madam Red is indeed remembered, you need to look closer in the manga. In the Titanic/Zombie Arc, particularly, since Grell appears again after the Jack the Ripper Arc.
  • She did reappear in the Ciel in Wonderland OVA as the Queen of Hearts (fittingly enough). Not sure if that counts, but since the whole thing was a dream that Ciel was having, it shows that he does remember her.
• Season 2, episode 8. Claude killed Alois ...How?! Aren't they under a Magically Binding Contract?
  • Actually...Alois' contract was specifically to 'never leave my side/never leave me alone', In episode 8, Claude said something along the lines of 'in this form we will be always together' so, technically, he didn't break the contract at all. Demons are trecherous creatures, so is obvious he had ready a legal loophole to escape from the contract if this wasn't satisfying enough.
    • But was that really the point of the contract? I thought that his goal was to get revenge against Sebastian for killing Luka by taking Ciel from him.
  • Technically, demons only follow orders because its their aesthetics (or so Sebastian says). So if Claude really wanted to, he could disobey Alois's orders.
  • I might be wrong but this is how I interpreted it- Claude murdered Alois's body but he didn't eat his soul- Hannah did that later. He still technically fulfilled Alois's wishes because Alois wanted to possess Ciel Phantomhive (which is extremely vague but that's a whole 'nother issue.) Claude interpreted this to mean fusing together Ciel and Alois's souls, which he then tried to do. This would let him fulfill Alois's contract while being able to get close to Ciel. So "technically" this isn't violating the contract; he just took advantage of its vague nature.
• Okay, seriously. In the recent murder mystery arc, why was no one smart enough to leave the mansion? Sure, it was raining heavily, but just how the hell is that any comparison to the dangers of staying in a mansion that a murderer is lurking in?
  • You have to remember that they were basically stranded at the house. With that ride, the roads are extremely muddy and that makes it very impossible to navigate to.
    • But couldn't they have walked somewhere safer? I mean Ciel's mansion can't really be that far from a town, can it?
    • A mansion built in that time period? Eh, it probably was pretty far from town. Or maybe just too far for most of the fancypants nobles to walk. Besides, it's all stormy and dark and scary outside, and they're pretty sure someone amongst them is a murderer. AND maybe the killer's got some buddies on the outside, waiting for as backup.
    • One man tried to leave. Ciel didn't let him.
• Why did Ciel's death certificate in the last episode of season 2 say he was 13? Season 2's storyline is supposed to be set a year and 3 months after the first season's end, so he should be 14. Did the animation team just forget that or did I miss something?
  • I don't think it took place one year and three months after season 1. Yes, it was one year and three months for us viewers but season 2 takes place right after the final episode I think.
• Speaking of death, why were only select characters given Ciel's death certificate, and not everyone (like the housekeepers). Seems like a huge Plot Hole, should they run into each other.
  • Maybe Ciel just doesn't care if his staff gets into embarrassing situations.
• Why did Claude frame Sebastian for Luka's death? Sure, it's not like he could have told the truth, but why Sebastian? What did he ever do? Also, what was the point of episode 2 & 3? They were supposed to be very relevant to the ending of the story but were they really? Even after the finale they still come off as Fillers.
  • Claude was after Ciel's soul and Sebastian was already contracted to Ciel by the time Claude became contracted to Alois, so that made Sebastian something of an "obstacle" to Claude
  • Well if you paid attention to the lines more you would have noticed that the lady said "The man with the 'golden' eyes told me.' Hint: Golden. I have nothing to add about the relevance of 2 I'm lost as to why that's even there.
  • Season two is actually a filler season. It was made to explain the ending of season one. Everything that happens in season two never happens in the manga.
• I know it's meant to be impressive and it's supposed to show us that he's just as cool as Sebby , but why did Claude feel the sudden urge to tap dance before redecorating the mansion? I mean yeah, it's cool that he can do that without falling, but WHY? It just made me giggle a little.
  • I'd like to know too. I can only think that it's some sort of powering-up ritual? It just looks silly. Claude lost points from me for that.
  • I think it might be a Shout-Out to Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban. In the movie, Ron wakes up in the middle of a nightmare and says he dreamt of spiders and tap dancing.
  • Technically it's not a tap-dance, it's flamenco. Which doesn't make it any less jarring, but fits in with the hints of Spanish culture that flavor Claude's character. And I agree with the "power-up ritual" theory, although it's interesting that he never does it again.
• In the manga there is electricity, cell phones (though rather bulky), video games, and television. This is all fixed in the anime but it just bothers me when things like that show up in the anime.
  • The "television" is never explicitly called such; it's only stated that it's a box with moving people inside. It could be early motion picture technology like a kintescope,which involved peering through a small lens to watch a film inside a small box. The technology actually fits into the manga's timeline.
    • Soma does explicitly refer to the "television", in some small flavor text when he first visits Ciel's townhouse.
  • Also, the Italian mafia are wearing very modern clothes?
    • What are the Italian mafia even doing in 1880s London?
  • You have to admit, for the first few chapters and even sometimes in the curry competition arc, Kuroshitsuji did seem like somewhat of a parody manga, usually parodying Shounen manga clichés. e.g. in the first chapter, when Sebastian fought against a martial artist calling out stupid-sounding moves; not to mention the fact that Sebastian is "perfect" and uses knives as weapons. And having a flamboyant gay/maybe transsexual death god. All of those (at least at the beginning) seemed a bit overdone and funny. As the series went on and it actually got a serious plot, you'll notice there aren't as many "mistakes" such as the mobile phone or television.
    • There are loads of them in mid to late chapters: steel steamships the size of the Campania were not remotely feasible until electronic networking was advanced enough to control the hundreds of components for each boiler, Ciel wields a modern Ruger-like semi-auto handgun in the Weston arc, the German arc contains weapons technology from World Wars I and II, and the S4 arc involves a range of blood typing, storage and transfusion technologies that definitely aren't Victorian.
    • The blood typings aren't completely accurate and transfusion technology was in its infancy back then in the real world, so that much is feasible.
  • Actually, some parts of the manga are so historically accurate it's impressive (plants on the fireplace, architecture, certain jibes about the time of tea in comparison to social classes) and then they throw a phone and a chainsaw and a TV in for laughs.
  • Minus the technology in the Emerald Witch arc, all this seems largely to be the result of Early Installment Weirdness or Critical Research Failure, sometimes a mix of both.
• In chapter 3, why doesn't Sebastian notice when the mafia guys sneak in through the window and kidnap Ciel? Exactly how good is his hearing, anyway?
  • That's a simple excuse for Rule of Cool. If he had stopped them there, he wouldn't have had an excuse to go on an awesome rescue mission.
  • I wouldn't put it past Sebastian to do it just so Ciel would get hurt. He would've let Ciel get bitten by a probably venomous snake if it weren't for Doll's timely intervention and has expressed a desire to have others teach him a lesson more than once. Sebastian might be Affably Evil, but he's still evil.
• At the end of season 2 of the anime, Ciel becomes a demon and Sebastian is bound to serve him forever, and to never eat his soul. Does this mean that Sebastian will never be able to eat anyone's soul ever again, meaning he will starve and eventually die? Maybe I'm just missing something.
  • I haven't read the manga, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but i don't think Sebastian has to eat souls to survive. I never saw him do it during the show.
  • Logical, although then why would Sebby be after Ciel's soul in the first place?
    • Because he's evil and it's tasty.
  • Then why does Angela say Sebastian must be starving in episode 20?
    • I suppose it's similar to having chips even if you aren't hungry; they're simply delicious.
    • Angela is bat-shit insane. I wouldn't listen to anything coming from her.
  • The contract prevents Sebastian from failing Ciel in any way, right? (I've never really been 100% sure how that works, but I thought that the implication was that even if it's something Sebastian wouldn't be able to do normally, the contract would make it happen because he HAD to do it. Anyway, by dying he would technically "escape" the contract, wouldn't he? So I've just been assuming the contract would keep him from dying of starvation from not eating any souls in order to make sure he was stuck with Ciel forever.
  • It's made fairly clear in the manga and the anime that demons don't have to be contracted to a person in order to consume their soul. Contracted souls just taste better and are more satisfying (presumably) because the demon can "season" the soul to their taste. It's the difference between a diet of bread and water as opposed to a five-star dinner. Both will keep you from starving, but which would you pick? So poor Sebastian is consigned to a bland diet for eternity since he can't contract with anyone else and he can't consume Ciel's soul. No wonder the poor sod looks so miserable.
• In the Manga in chapter 2; Sebastian's bow hold is incredibly unstable! there is no way he'd be able to play with that incorrect bow hold and sound good. I'm a violinist so the whole position of the instrument looks off to me, I've tried playing positioned like that and it's just painful.
  • Well ... he is one hell of a butler
  • But he can get heart burn, so it seems he can't defy EVERY law of the universe.
  • It's likely that the artist just wasn't familiar with the proper way to hold a violin and didn't bother to look into it.
• So at the end of the first season, London burns down, or at least gets heavy physical damage. Not to mention many, many people die. So in the second season, how is everything back to normal so fast? It's only been a few months since the end of season 1! Not too mention nobody, not even most of the main cast, seems to act like it never existed. Let alone the extras.
  • Keep calm and carry on?
• Madam Red was not the only doctor in her hospital. Why did they let a woman who had lost her unborn baby and her ability to carry children perform abortions? That's cruel, even if you are pro-choice!
  • The key word there is "let". If Madam Red chose to preform a particular sort of surgery for which she was trained, they don't really have any reason to stop her (at least by Victorian Era co-ed doctor sensibilities). They may not even have known about her past, if she was sent to a different hospital and/or didn't work there until after her husband had already died.
• At the end of season two, when Ciel becomes a demon, why was it necessary for him to send Sebastian to tell everyone he was dead?
  • Because a rich kid suddenly vanishing was gonna raise a few questions. Telling everyone he died was simply a cover so no one would wonder where he vanished off to.
• In chapter 55, Sebastian changes his gloves after killing the zombies. He didn't seem to have turned around... Lizzie and Snake were both watching. Does this not bother anyone?
  • Are you referring to Sebastian's contract mark being visible? They probably thought it was some kind of tattoo.
    • ...A tattoo of a symbol commonly accused of satanism. I'd think that it would attract a bit of attention.
    • Historically, the pentagram has often been used as protection against evil, rather than for Satanism or for devil worshipping.
• Why do Angela and Ash, who are so obsessed with destroying everything dirty and impure that they try to burn down London , have such a close relationship with Pluto, who is a demon dog?
  • This is just a hypothesis but I think they want to eliminate sins and negative feelings. Pluto acts like a dog, not like a human: he's not evolved enough to feel hatred and commit sins.
• Hannah's sword is lethal. Any demon wounded by it has to die. So why does she store it inside her own body? Isn't she afraid of cutting herself while swallowing it?
  • I always assumed that she is a special kind of demon who is able to store the sword. As wasp's poison does not harm the carrier, so does the weapon. And it seems that she contains a vast emptiness inside her (remember that eye-in-the-mouth scene?), so sword just can't reach her from inside.
• In chapter 5, how could Ciel steal the head of a chocolate statue? Wasn't it a bit high for him? Why didn't he take something easier instead?
• Didn't Sebastian rape Mathilda? People act like it was consensual.
  • Sebastian is a demon after all
  • I should say more along the lines of seduced. I didn't see anything implying that it wasn't, aside from the bit where he squashes the bug behind her, and that seemed more like an excuse to be suddenly swoon-inducingly close to her than it was any sort of implied threat. I practically swooned from that, and I was sitting across the room, and not on the same side of the camera as them.
  • She didn't voice her refusal, and she willingly accepted to have sex with him while enjoying it the process. I'm not saying that "it isn't rape if you enjoyed it", because I never believed that statement was true, but she gave in quickly and she never said no; therefore, it is assumed that it was consensual.
  • Actually, she did eventually tell him to stop ("No... you'll make me impure!") to which he did not until he was "finished" and even her expression after the bug-squish could be read as being a bit intimidated, so it normally would fall under "Not If They Enjoyed It" Rationalization and was even listed as an example there. However, because she ended up genuinely enjoying it and not having signs of distress afterward it becomes a little more YMMV.
  • Given how both of Sebastian's "interrogation" scenes went, this troper would not be surprised if they were meant to pay homage to early spy movies where women would be interrogated in a similar manner and sometimes with some iffy implications and execution.
  • Mathilda's scene seemed very consensual all-around. Beast's, on the other hand, was indisputably sexual coercion, a form of rape.
  • If we really want to go into technicalities here, both instances would qualify as Rape by Fraud if Sebastian didn't inform either of them that he's a demon.
• Doesn't anybody wonder where the hell Sebastian is from, or what happened to Ciel? I mean, both Elizabeth and Madame Red have mentioned that he just showed up one day with a 'pitch black butler'...cool, nothing alarming about that, right? Never mind that the Phantomhive manor was mysteriously burned down or that Ciel has been missing for a month and came back covered in bruises with bandages around his eye. Never mind how empty he seemed when he returned. I get that they were happy to have him back, but come on.
  • Not that you don't have a point, but I wager they were just so happy he was alive that they didn't care that he seemed off. You know, "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth" and all that jazz.
  • Not to mention, questioning traumatized children when they don't want to talk is a recipe for disaster. The idea of 'If you talk about it, you'll get over it' only works for some people. For others, it just makes them relive trauma, damaging them even further.
  • To be fair though, Elizabeth doesn't really seem the type to ignore it...
    • I also agree, most people (Including Lizzy) were just happy that he was alive, but it's implied in chapter chapter 66, that Lizzy has always wondered about it but she just doesn't have the guts to ask him..
• In season 1 of the anime, does anyone find it odd that Sebastian doesn't immediately recognise Grell and the Undertaker as shinigami? For that matter, in season 2, neither Claude nor Sebastian appear to catch on that Alois' maid is the season's Big Bad.
  • It's been shown several times in the anime that, even though it's easy for Sebastian to tell when someone is "off", he doesn't have the magical ability to know exactly who/what they are just by talking to them. He knew Grell was off, he knew Undertaker was off, but he didn't know what they were until it was too late. The same with Angela (though I get the idea he had a better guess at her, probably given the name).
  • I don't believe it's so much that he doesn't immediately recognise what they are as it is that he doesn't immediately recognize their true nature. His comment towards Angela heavily implied that he knew she was some manner of angel, and one could take his sarcastic comment to Grell - Specifically, that he finds it ironic that Grell of all people would mention her life flashing before her eyes - as a hint that he was already on to her, as part of Grell's official job is to read cinematic records - Or, in laymans terms, watch peoples lives flash before their eyes. Just because he knows Grell is a Grim Reaper who, for some reason, is posing as a butler doesn't automatically make her Jack the Ripper. Just because Angela is an angel who, for some reason, is posing as a maid doesn't make her an omnicidal nutjob.
• One thing that I never understood is why they made Bardroy British in the anime.
  • Because the uniform he has on during his flashback sequences is in the British military style- in the manga, it was in the American military style.
    • Well, yes, but I mean why did they make him British at all, not just in the dub.
• I've been hearing this rumor time and time again and I am hoping someone here could lead me to some proof toward its validation. Is it true that Black Butler's creator intended the story to be a hardcore Yaoi first and just changed it around because it wouldn't be published if it was? Because I've also heard an opposing rumor that the author claimed that absolutely nothing about Black Butler is meant to be seen as a Yaoi and instead the relationship between Ciel and Sebastian should be seen as toxic at best. Neither rumor has proof backing it up, so does any one here know where to find out?
  • I don't have any confirmation for either, but I'm pretty sure both rumors are correct. Their relationship is intended to be toxic at best, and in the original hardcore-yaoi version they were supposed to have a destructive, manipulative, toxic relationship where the sex makes the entire thing even more fucked up. So originally it was going to be a story about a manipulative sexual relationship, until Yana Tobos wrote out the sex and made it a destructive, manipulative, toxic relationship without sexual tension. Read the manga chapters where Sebastian manipulates and sleeps with Beast- you'll see what I mean.
  • As it turns out, there was never any real confirmation found on this and this idea supposedly doesn't even exist in the Japanese fandom (you know, Black Butler's home fandom). So unless something legitimate actually pops up it's probably safe to view this as merely a rumor (albeit a pretty convincing one, given all the Ho Yay and Toboso's past works).
• How do the witches in the Witch Forest arc procreate if they're all women? Sieglinde mentions that the first Green Witch died long ago and her blood thinned out over generations, so unless she's an exception, they're not immortal. Is there any other possible explanation besides magic? And unless they really reproduce parthenogenetically, where are all the guys?
  • Ciel points that out, and it looks like that question is a hint that all is not what it seems in the forest
    • In addition, in the latest chapter Snake implies that the residents may be the werewolves themselves - or at least have some kind of physical contact with said wolves - (one of the snake's mentions the girl smelled like the werewolf). Plus it appears Sieglinde has to perform some kind of ritual involving the wolves soon. Either way there's clearly something more to the village than there seems.
    • Latest chapter reveals there are men in the village and they are simply dressing up in some really well-made Werewolf costumes. Some of the women do it, too, hence the smell the snake got from that one woman.
  • Not a headscratcher, as it the question was completely resolved in the manga. The whole village is a setup to drive the development of mustard gas.
• In the Weston School Arc, could Ciel not simply have ordered Sebastian to spy/get information from the P4. I know there wouldn't have been a story otherwise, but it's not like Sebastian hasn't done covert spying/interrogations before. It seemed like Ciel having to get close to the P4 and the whole Cricket tournament could have been avoided by simply crashing the Midnight tea party.
  • The task given to him by the Queen was to find out about what happened to one of her distant relatives. Aside from the relatives themselves, there is no real mention about Derek or that he's even supposedly missing. Crashing the Midnight Tea Party of London's prestigious School might have alerted all sorts of authorities, which was likely not supposed to happen and would've potentially complicated things even more.
• Lizzie wants to be a perfect lady for Ciel and thinks he'll hate her otherwise. The problem is, she doesn't act like a lady at all. She visits him unannounced and uninvited, tries to force him to do things he obviously doesn't like, speaks really loud even in public... Even today those things are considered annoying and rude and in that period was even worse, especially if a woman did it. Why does Lizzie acts this way then? It's unladylike and Ciel clearly hates it (and she should have understood it when he almost slapped her.)
  • Lizzie wanted to be seen as "cute" by him - not ladylike. And her original reason for being like that is because Ciel had admitted that his aunt/her mother was scary because she was so strong and great in fencing, and Ciel was happy that he was marrying Lizzie, who was sweet and not scary like Aunt Frances. Sure, some of her behavior is not ladylike for the time period, but it's better than being a fencing badass that has no problem with knocking Ciel on his bottom. I believe one chapter even has her admitting that she acts loud and crazy like that at times in order to cheer Ciel up.
• This troper initially got to know the series via the manga, then heard of the anime and read that Ciel had an Adaptation Dye-Job for the anime to a blue color, where as in the manga, he was sometimes depicted in color images with dark hair to the point of being black with blue highlights... was this troper the only one who thought, prior to seeing these color images, that Ciel had reddish-auburn hair (likely coming from his mother's side)? This troper still feels like blue-haired Ciel is foreign.
• In Werewolf Arc, there is something that I didn't noticed until I re-read the arc. During the "ritual bath" of the "infected" Sebastian and Ciel, Sieglinde ordered them to drink and then vomit a strange mixture. Since Ciel was half conscious, Sebastian forcefully poured the mixture into his throat and then forced him to vomit. Ciel then a flashback of the cultists who were forcefully feeding him as well. Does this mean that Ciel's BSOD was caused mostly by Sebastian's actions and not the poisonous gas effects? And if yes, how is it possible that the tactic "scare the hell out of Ciel" actually worked?
  • This is just my guess at that last part, but perhaps it worked because he figured the immediate life-or-death situation would shock Ciel into becoming motivated into obtaining his vengeance again (people can sometimes get bursts of energy/motivation when thrown into danger). Alternately, Sebastian was really going to do it and it was pure luck on Ciel's part that he was able to snap back (being 90% serious about something is still being 90% serious about something).
• There's this part I read a while back where somebody calls Ciel "Professor" as a compliment to how very learned Ciel is (or something like that). In the original Japanese, the word "sensei" was used, and "professor" was the translators best attempt to create an English translation of the word "sensei" in that particular context. Okay. What I don't get is this: Usually, anyone who reads the Japanese original is expected to understand that the characters are really meant to be speaking English in-universe, and the manga is only printed in Japanese for the benefit of the readers. If Sebastian says "konnichiwa," every reader understands that he's really saying "How do you do." Yana Toboso imagined him saying "How do you do," and then translated it into "Konnichiwa" for the benefit of her readers. (Of course, I'm not claiming she comes up with every single line of dialogue in English first, I'm just saying that it's constantly clear to her that the characters are conversing in English.) Fine, that's a very useful trope. But here's the rub. If all the dialogue in the Japanese manga is supposed to be a translation of the English-language dialogue that Ciel, Sebastian and the others are actually having in-universe... What's "sensei" supposed to be in the in-universe English? "Professor" can't have been the original phrase used, because then Toboso would have used the Japanese word for "professor" in the Japanese text. So... what was really being said in-universe that got written as "sensei" in the Japanese text?
  • I believe this is a case where translation is not a one to one ratio. Sensei is a title for a teacher (or a doctor), and while Japanese may have a specific title for Professor, in English, 'Teacher' is not used as a formal title, therefor Professor is the closest translation our language can afford.
• In chapter 76, Redmond spins around in a circle in order to hit the cricket ball even farther with his bat. Is that actually something that can be done? I seem to remember that centrifugal force doesn't work that way.
  • True. Strictly speaking, centrifugal force isn't really a force. The only justification I can think of is that it gives Redmond another second to build up speed.
• What gender is Grell exactly. Other characters describe Grell as male, while Grell refers to themselves as female, and it is mentioned that Grell wants a sex change. Grell's facial characteristics also blur the line between masculine and feminine.
  • Grell is of the female gender, as she's a trans woman. Also, it's worth mentioning that in the original Japanese version of the manga, Grell is not once referred to as male by the other characters.
• Pertaining to the German duo. In Chapter 106, Sullivan forgives Wolfram for deceiving her and accepts him back as her butler. This is a very heartwarming moment...except right beforehand she stops him from apologizing and tells him that she was the one who deceived him first and claims that her wishing to see the outside world was nothing but greed that nearly caused her to lose him. Long story short, although he was under strict orders and would have never done any of this on his own free will, Wolfram still took part in both physical abuse (breaking her feet) and a lifetime of mental manipulation of the poor girl. Along with this, her wish to go out and see the world was a totally justified thing to desire, especially with the truth behind the whole thing. I don't know...while this tropette is happy that these two were able to mend things, there is still an aura of Unfortunate Implications that lingers around Sullivan's apology.
• Are... Are we not going to talk about how in the manga the P4 are now essentially a Japanese boy band a la Uta no Prince-sama ? That certainly seems to be the visual Yana Toboso is going for and it's completely broken my Willing Suspension of Disbelief.
  • For this type of stuff, until there is an actual explanation just remember that Black Butler was not only originally supposed to be a shorter story but also more like a parody that can go in numerous genre directions (just look at the first chapters... and unlike the yaoi rumor this actually has credence). While some of that has certainly changed, the parody spirit lives on and there are plenty of examples both overt and subtle. With that said...yes, the P4/S4 J-pop group and Sebastian having an idol moment at one point is undoubtedly jarring for the Victorian setting and, while absolutely hilarious to some including this tropette, probably made a few sets of eyes roll.
  • It appears that they are getting away with this because of Nina Hopkins's love for taking on progressive fashion, and the Phantom 5 were even utilizing Sieglinde by having her make stuff like headphones, speakers, and floating podiums. It's still very weird, though.
• If Sieglinde had accepted Ciel's offer of a Mercy Kill, would she had become a shinigami?
  • Actually, Sieglinde did accept his offer to kill her and it could be argued that Ciel would have simply pulled the trigger had Victoria not ordered him to bring Sieglinde to her. However, my guess is that had that happened the manner of death might had been ruled as a homicide despite her being willing to die (given that Ciel was the one to make the offer, thus his intention to kill her would have overruled her enlisting him 'assistance'), so Sieglinde probably would not have become a shinigami then.
• What exactly was the point of the Hannibal Lecture Soma receives in season 1? I feel like I'm either seriously missing something, or is trying to give a really off message (never being loved or cared about is pretty psychologically damaging, and I'm not sure "be an island and deal with life alone" is a good lesson).
  • Been years since I watched season 1 but to be fair the speech is coming from Ciel, a little kid who doesn't mind dying after getting revenge, has a lot of traumatic baggage and believes you are supposed to deal with your problems without the help of others (probably because he knows his problems would usually get everyone he cares about killed) and Sebastian, who's an amoral demon. They don't have anything resembling a good moral compass and Ciel himself has quite some nihilistic views. Souma was acting like a spoiled brat who believed everyone should love him just because he is who he is. He complains that Agni too is vanishing when he himself doesn't even try to figure out what's wrong with Agni; he expects people to give him stuff like love and loyalty (the same way his money, his servants, his name were all given to him) without trying to understand them in return. He just takes it for granted. Ciel's point wasn't so much "don't let anyone help you" (though I wouldn't pass that notion behind him) such as "Stop needing people for everything and walk on your own feet".
• This is just something that came to this troper's mind. At the end of the Book of Murder when everyone dug Sebastian out of his grave after they saw he was still alive, how in the hell was it that they didn't try to question just how he could be alive and fully funtioning after his injuries or even try to get him medical attention? Even if they were all overjoyed at the time... it still is kind of off.
  • I think the bigger question is, why aren't they wondering how someone could come back from being freaking embalmed ?! Modern embalming was being done from the mid-nineteenth century and was immediately popular with the upper classes! There's no way no one other than Ciel should not have noticed that Sebastian had apparently not been embalmed. Okay, he was buried in a safety coffin, but the boom in embalming is exactly why safety coffins never took off; they were irrelevant from the start.
    • Easily explained that Sebastian didn't put aside the funds before his death to be embalmed, and Ciel didn't pay to have him embalmed. It may be popular with the upper class, but a butler is NOT upper class.
• In the final page of Chapter 128, why does Ciel react the way he does in the final panel when Sebastian reaffirms that he "[does] not tell lies"? The horrified+terrified reaction felt out of place with the reply. Been rereading the previous panels leading up to it and I still can't figure out why, but perhaps a detail had slipped my mind. I imagine it's not a the biggest of Big Deals considering all that's happened and wham reveal later on, but I've just been scratching my head all day over it. Is it because (in the specific translation I'm reading anyway) Ciel asked, "You wouldn't lie to me, would you?" and, rather than a simple yes/no, Sebastian answered indirectly (while at the same time not lying) — and it makes for a significant detail in how the situation unravels later on in the story? Maybe it's just the main reaction to the horror of all that is happening? That's just me speculating and making myself even more confused, so if anyone can give me their answer/analysis/comment for it, please do!
  • It's explained quite well here.
• In Black Butler S2 episode 5 Prince Soma is dressed up as Sherlock Holmes. This took place before the Book of Murder where the author of that fictional character is a main character and he hasn't written the books yet. Implies that Book of Murder arc wasn't planned until after the anime's second season.
  • The second season of the anime is not canon to the manga (and thus to the anime from Book of Circus onward), and was not written by Toboso Yana but rather by Okada Mari. Also Book of Murder doesn't take place after season two because the anime is effectively split into two timelines and in neither timeline do both season two and Book of Murder occur:
    • The canon timeline follows Toboso's manga closely and consists of the first six episodes of season one, episodes thirteen to fifteen of season one, Book of Circus, Book of Murder, and Book of the Atlantic.
    • The non-canon timeline, written by Okada without input from Toboso, is all of seasons one and two, including the His Butler, Performer, Ciel in Wonderland, Welcome to the Phantomhive's, The Making of Kuroshitsuji II, The Story of Will the Reaper, and The Threads of the Spider's Story OVAs. Toboso has distanced herself from the anime, and when you read between the lines you can tell she does not like or approve of it.
    • Actually, Toboso once stated that she is emotionally tied to the Okada storyline and occasionally makes references to Alois, so she most likely doesn't hate it entirely. Still, it's non-canon and the manga goes more in line with Toboso's vision.
• There is one possibility Ciel didn't take into account when making the deal with Sebastian: what if the people who killed his family and burnt down the mansion are already dead? That would mean everything he's worked so hard for would be for nothing and Sebastian would have his soul. We've already seen in the Green Witch Arc that if Ciel abandons his revenge, Sebastian won't hesitate to eat his soul.
  • I think this belongs in Fridge Horror.
• Where are all the female grim reapers? It's true that men are statistically more likely to kill themselves, but it's not like women never do it. Grell's the only one who's shown. At one point Ronald mentions that he's on good terms with the girls in dispatch, hence his modified death scythe, so are the rest of them all secretaries or what? And is Sascha a man, a woman, or non-binary? If they're a woman, does that mean the German reaper department lets women reapers into the field freely, but the English one generally doesn't? Or have we just not seen many yet?
• Why doesn't anyone comment on Ronald's hair? He has multicolored hair in the Victorian era and nobody thinks that's strange? One girl comments on his "odd watch" and Bard says he has strange glasses, but the black and blond hair isn't confusing at all? Same goes for Violet and especially Cheslock (although Sebastian does say that no one else in England looks like the latter).
  • Probably just World of Technicolor Hair in effect, especially with other characters having non-natural hair colors with little to no fuss over them (Angelina and Grell having red hair, Mei-Rin having magenta-ish hair in the anime and red in the manga, Ciel having blue-grey hair, etc.).

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